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North West Intermediate Rugby Union Leagues - Discussion



Points deductions

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Re: Points deductions

Postby Sir » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:24 pm

It's not just small teams that struggle for players in certain positions, some of the "bigger" clubs struggle for players who aren't flankers, second rows, centres and wingers
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Re: Points deductions

Postby madref100 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:07 pm

The talk of players playing above their level does this include players playing in div 5 who are 45-50+ years old and 17-18 year olds playing their 1st season of senior rugby being asked to stand in for a team in div 1 who can't be bothered to travel and therefore conceeded. The lower team fulfilled their fixture as the away team had already incured the cost of hiring a coach, who insidently would have reimbursed their costs, the league ? The home team ? I think not. As a result of this the home side as per the rules have been docked points, this has resulted in them forfeiting promotion and the possibility if a higher team at the club concede again being removed from the league and forfeiting a cup final.

What puzzles me is that their 2nd team have been docked points for playing on Friday night in a conference A fixture, if the 2nd team players had made themselves available for a second game, the crys of team loading would be echoing throughout these pages.

Well that's off my chest, I think conceded games in the bottom reaches of the leagues should be scrapped otherwise dozens of players will just walk away from the game we love when they're side is cast out of the league.

Gentleman something needs to be done, and sooner rather than later.
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Re: Points deductions

Postby forumadmin » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:51 am

madref100 wrote:... asked to stand in for a team in div 1 who can't be bothered to travel and therefore conceeded.


Maybe your ire should be directed closer to home?
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Re: Points deductions

Postby madref100 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:26 pm

Closer to home ? Why ? Should the 2nd team be made to play 2 games in 48hrs, or th "old codgers" be asked to step up 4 divisions and risk injury? the league set the rules therefore the league must be held accountable for the risks, somehow I don't think they care all they are concerned about is how good the leagues look on paper and not about the potential risk to players not capable of that level of play
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Re: Points deductions

Postby forumadmin » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:51 pm

madref100 wrote:Closer to home ? Why ? Should the 2nd team be made to play 2 games in 48hrs, or th "old codgers" be asked to step up 4 divisions and risk injury? the league set the rules therefore the league must be held accountable for the risks


No. I think that you mentioned that the 3rd team and I quote, "a team in div 1 who can't be bothered to travel and therefore conceeded." Maybe your ire should be directed at the team who "can't be bothered to travel and therefore conceeded".
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Re: Points deductions

Postby madref100 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:14 pm

Yes the "ire" has well and truly been vented at the 3rds, but your still expecting the old boys to front up, what will it take to get you to understand, a catastrophic injury ? even a fatality because the higher team MUST always play at the expense of the lower side, really get with it before the ambulance chasers have a field day with the organizers and their law's.
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Re: Points deductions

Postby forumadmin » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:09 pm

The "45-50+ years old and 17-18 year olds in their first season" can always say no which they obviously did in this case. Nobody personally has to put themselves into a dangerous situation and a club should not put players in a dangerous situation. If this causes rules to be broken then so be it.

The rules are formed by the clubs and passed at the AGM of the league. There has been much discussion about rule 13 and no doubt there will be much more. Maybe someone needs to get thinking and formulate some rules which everyone can agree on at the AGM.

Not that I'm advocating this, but some clubs have conceded their lower team fixture as well, and played the lower team fixture as a friendly thus not incurring the 2 point penalty and all other points gained throughout the club. Obviously the lower team cannot gain any points but at least they don't lose 2.
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Re: Points deductions

Postby Lifeintheolddog » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:20 pm

Playing rugby
Please explain what this is as I don't remember playing much this season due to games called off maybe it's time to go back to the old ways for the social sides un club
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Re: Points deductions

Postby madref100 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:25 pm

Looking at the leagues especially div 5 the amount of conceded games is astronomical. There are several teetering on the brink and yes maybe at that level we should go back to the good old days and fixture secretaries earned their keep. I personally think div 5 should reduced to 2 instead of 4 divisions and concedes allowed without the threat of expulsion, there will always be weekends players will not be available so it makes sense to drop this draconian step and keep players playing with out being told the season is over because the league hireracy decrees it.
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Re: Points deductions

Postby forumadmin » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:46 am

"Looking at the leagues especially div 5 the amount of conceded games is astronomical."
Would this number be improved if more concedes were allowed in the league system?

Some teams "can't be bothered to travel" if "div 5 should reduced to 2 instead of 4 divisions" was implemented would the increase in travelling distances improve this situation?

"There are several teetering on the brink and yes maybe at that level we should go back to the good old days and fixture secretaries earned their keep."
One of the reasons that the leagues came into existence was the number of teams crying off away games but playing the reciprocal home game.

"..... told the season is over because the league hireracy decrees it."

The league hierachy are all volunteers who are voted in at the AGM of the league. These volunteers apply the rules which are also voted into being at the league AGM. There are no dictators, all the league officials and league rules can be changed at the properly constituted AGM.

Any team removed from the leagues can "go back to the good old days and fixture secretaries earned their keep" and get fixtures with teams they would have played in the league or teams in the pool.

At my club early last season, before the 4th team played a game, most of the 4th team decided to retire. As a result of the 4th team's conceded games the 4th and 5th teams were expelled from the leagues. The 5th team managed to get friendly fixtures for the rest of the season and managed to maintain interest, but it wasn't easy, and the team is back in the leagues this season. However, as you say, the fixture secretary did earn his keep.
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